And when a man thinks that he ought to obtain this treasure, far more
than money, from a father or a guardian or a friend or a suitor,
whether citizen or stranger-the eager desire and prayer to them that
they would impart wisdom to you, is not at all dishonourable,
Cleinias; nor is any one to be blamed for doing any honourable service
or ministration to any man, whether a lover or not, if his aim is to
get wisdom. Do you agree? I said.
Yes, he said, I quite agree, and think that you are right.
Yes, I said, Cleinias, if only wisdom can be taught, and does not come
to man spontaneously; for this is a point which has still to be
considered, and is not yet agreed upon by you and me-
But I think, Socrates, that wisdom can be taught, he said.
Best of men, I said, I am delighted to hear you say so; and I am also
grateful to you for having saved me from a long and tiresome
investigation as to whether wisdom can be taught or not. But now, as
you think that wisdom can be taught, and that wisdom only can make a
man happy and fortunate will you not acknowledge that all of us ought
to love wisdom, and you individually will try to love her?
Certainly, Socrates, he said; I will do my best.
I was pleased at hearing this; and I turned to Dionysodorus and
Euthydemus and said: That is an example, clumsy and tedious I admit,
of the sort of exhortations which I would have you give; and I hope
that one of you will set forth what I have been saying in a more
artistic style: or at least take up the enquiry where I left off, and
proceed to show the youth whether he should have all knowledge; or
whether there is one sort of knowledge only which will make him good
and happy, and what that is. For, as I was saying at first, the
improvement of this young man in virtue and wisdom is a matter which
we have very much at heart.
Thus I spoke, Crito, and was all attention to what was coming. I
wanted to see how they would approach the question, and where they
would start in their exhortation to the young man that he should
practise wisdom and virtue. Dionysodorus, who was the elder, spoke
first. Everybody's eyes were directed towards him, perceiving that
something wonderful might shortly be expected. And certainly they were
not far wrong; for the man, Crito, began a remarkable discourse well
worth hearing, and wonderfully persuasive regarded as an exhortation
to virtue.
Tell me, he said, Socrates and the rest of you who say that you want
this young man to become wise, are you in jest or in real earnest?
I was led by this to imagine that they fancied us to have been jesting
when we asked them to converse with the youth, and that this made them
jest and play, and being under this impression, I was the more decided
in saying that we were in profound earnest. Dionysodorus said:
Reflect, Socrates; you may have to deny your words.
I have reflected, I said; and I shall never deny my words.
Well, said he, and so you say that you wish Cleinias to become wise?
Undoubtedly.
And he is not wise as yet?
At least his modesty will not allow him to say that he is.
You wish him, he said, to become wise and not, to be ignorant?
That we do.
You wish him to be what he is not, and no longer to be what he is?
I was thrown into consternation at this.
Taking advantage of my consternation he added: You wish him no longer
to be what he is, which can only mean that you wish him to perish.
Pretty lovers and friends they must be who want their favourite not to
be, or to perish!
When Ctesippus heard this he got very angry (as a lover well might)
and said: Stranger of Thurii-if politeness would allow me I should
say, A plague upon you! What can make you tell such a lie about me and
the others, which I hardly like to repeat, as that I wish Cleinias to
perish?
Euthydemus replied: And do you think, Ctesippus, that it is possible