gorgias   

and therefore if you go on discoursing all day I shall be the better

pleased.

Soc. I may truly say, Callicles, that I am willing, if Gorgias is.

Gor. After all this, Socrates, I should be disgraced if I refused,

especially as I have promised to answer all comers; in accordance with

the wishes of the company, them, do you begin. and ask of me any

question which you like.

Soc. Let me tell you then, Gorgias, what surprises me in your words;

though I dare say that you may be right, and I may have understood

your meaning. You say that you can make any man, who will learn of

you, a rhetorician?

Gor. Yes.

Soc. Do you mean that you will teach him to gain the ears of the

multitude on any subject, and this not by instruction but by

persuasion?

Gor. Quite so.

Soc. You were saying, in fact, that the rhetorician will have,

greater powers of persuasion than the physician even in a matter of

health?

Gor. Yes, with the multitude-that is.

Soc. You mean to say, with the ignorant; for with those who know

he cannot be supposed to have greater powers of persuasion.

Gor. Very true.

Soc. But if he is to have more power of persuasion than the

physician, he will have greater power than he who knows?

Gor. Certainly.

Soc. Although he is not a physician:-is he?

Gor. No.

Soc. And he who is not a physician must, obviously, be ignorant of

what the physician knows.

Gor. Clearly.

Soc. Then, when the rhetorician is more persuasive than the