thing, he thinks of the end and not of the means?
Nic. Certainly.
Soc. And when you call in an adviser, you should see whether he too is
skilful in the accomplishment of the end which you have in view?
Nic. Most true.
Soc. And at present we have in view some knowledge, of which the end
is the soul of youth?
Nic. Yes.
Soc. And we are enquiring, Which of us is skilful or successful in the
treatment of the soul, and which of us has had good teachers?
La. Well but, Socrates; did you never observe that some persons, who
have had no teachers, are more skilful than those who have, in some
things?
Soc. Yes, Laches, I have observed that; but you would not be very
willing to trust them if they only professed to be masters of their
art, unless they could show some proof of their skill or excellence in
one or more works.
La. That is true.
Soc. And therefore, Laches and Nicias, as Lysimachus and Melesias, in
their anxiety to improve the minds of their sons, have asked our
advice about them, we too should tell them who our teachers were, if
we say that we have had any, and prove them to be in the first place
men of merit and experienced trainers of the minds of youth and also
to have been really our teachers. Or if any of us says that he has no
teacher, but that he has works of his own to show; then he should
point out to them what Athenians or strangers, bond or free, he is
generally acknowledged to have improved. But if he can show neither
teachers nor works, then he should tell them to look out for others;
and not run the risk of spoiling the children of friends, and thereby
incurring the most formidable accusation which can be brought against
any one by those nearest to him. As for myself, Lysimachus and
Melesias, I am the first to confess that I have never had a teacher of
the art of virtue; although I have always from my earliest youth
desired to have one. But I am too poor to give money to the Sophists,
who are the only professors of moral improvement; and to this day I
have never been able to discover the art myself, though I should not
be surprised if Nicias or Laches may have discovered or learned it;
for they are far wealthier than I am, and may therefore have learnt of
others. And they are older too; so that they have had more time to
make the discovery. And I really believe that they are able to educate
a man; for unless they had been confident in their own knowledge, they
would never have spoken thus decidedly of the pursuits which are
advantageous or hurtful to a young man. I repose confidence in both of
them; but I am surprised to find that they differ from one another.
And therefore, Lysimachus, as Laches suggested that you should detain
me, and not let me go until I answered, I in turn earnestly beseech
and advise you to detain Laches and Nicias, and question them. I would
have you say to them: Socrates avers that he has no knowledge of the
matter-he is unable to decide which of you speaks truly; neither
discoverer nor student is he of anything of the kind. But you, Laches
and Nicias, should each of you tell us who is the most skilful
educator whom you have ever known; and whether you invented the art
yourselves, or learned of another; and if you learned, who were your
respective teachers, and who were their brothers in the art; and then,
if you are too much occupied in politics to teach us yourselves, let
us go to them, and present them with gifts, or make interest with
them, or both, in the hope that they may be induced to take charge of
our children and of yours; and then they will not grow up inferior,
and disgrace their ancestors. But if you are yourselves original
discoverers in that field, give us some proof of your skill. Who are
they who, having been inferior persons, have become under your care
good and noble? For if this is your first attempt at education, there
is a danger that you may be trying the experiment, not on the "vile
corpus" of a Carian slave, but on your own sons, or the sons of your