meno   

"gentlemen" are sometimes saying that "this thing can be taught,"

and sometimes the opposite? Can you say that they are teachers in

any true sense whose ideas are in such confusion?

Men. I should say, certainly not.

Soc. But if neither the Sophists nor the gentlemen are teachers,

clearly there can be no other teachers?

Men. No.

Soc. And if there are no teachers, neither are there disciples?

Men. Agreed.

Soc. And we have admitted that a thing cannot be taught of which

there are neither teachers nor disciples?

Men. We have.

Soc. And there are no teachers of virtue to be found anywhere?

Men. There are not.

Soc. And if there are no teachers, neither are there scholars?

Men. That, I think, is true.

Soc. Then virtue cannot be taught?

Men. Not if we are right in our view. But I cannot believe,

Socrates, that there are no good men: And if there are, how did they

come into existence?

Soc. I am afraid, Meno, that you and I are not good for much, and

that Gorgias has been as poor an educator of you as Prodicus has

been of me. Certainly we shall have to look to ourselves, and try to

find some one who will help in some way or other to improve us. This I

say, because I observe that in the previous discussion none of us

remarked that right and good action is possible to man under other

guidance than that of knowledge (episteme);-and indeed if this be

denied, there is no seeing how there can be any good men at all.

Men. How do you mean, Socrates?

Soc. I mean that good men are necessarily useful or profitable. Were

we not right in admitting this? It must be so.

Men. Yes.