philebus   

first or second place, and does not, if I may trust my own mind,

attain even to the third.

Pro. Truly, Socrates, pleasure appears to me to have had a fall;

in fighting for the palm, she has been smitten by the argument, and is

laid low. I must say that mind would have fallen too, and may

therefore be thought to show discretion in not putting forward a

similar claim. And if pleasure were deprived not only of the first but

of the second place, she would be terribly damaged in the eyes of

her admirers, for not even to them would she still appear as fair as

before.

Soc. Well, but had we not better leave her now, and not pain her

by applying the crucial test, and finally detecting her?

Pro. Nonsense, Socrates.

Soc. Why? because I said that we had better not pain pleasure, which

is an impossibility?

Pro. Yes, and more than that, because you do not seem to be aware

that none of us will let you go home until you have finished the

argument.

Soc. Heavens! Protarchus, that will be a tedious business, and

just at present not at all an easy one. For in going to war in the

cause of mind, who is aspiring to the second prize, I ought to have

weapons of another make from those which I used before; some, however,

of the old ones may do again. And must I then finish the argument?

Pro. Of course you must.

Soc. Let us be very careful in laying the foundation.

Pro. What do you mean?

Soc. Let us divide all existing things into two, or rather, if you

do not object, into three classes.

Pro. Upon what principle would you make the division?

Soc. Let us take some of our newly-found notions.

Pro. Which of them?

Soc. Were we not saying that God revealed a finite element of