republic (books 1 - 5)   

wholesale; comprehending in one, things sacred as well as pro-
fane, private and public; for which acts of wrong, if he were
detected perpetrating any one of them singly, he would be pun-
ished and incur great disgrace--they who do such wrong in
particular cases are called robbers of temples, and man-stealers
and burglars and swindlers and thieves. But when a man be-
sides taking away the money of the citizens has made slaves of
them, then, instead of these names of reproach, he is termed
happy and blessed, not only by the citizens but by all who hear
of his having achieved the consummation of injustice. For
mankind censure injustice, fearing that they may be the vic-
tims of it and not because they shrink from committing it.
And thus, as I have shown, Socrates, injustice, when on a suffi-
cient scale, has more strength and freedom and mastery than
justice; and, as I said at first, justice is the interest of the
stronger, whereas injustice is a man's own profit and interest.

Thrasymachus, when he had thus spoken, having, like a bath-
man, deluged our ears with his words, had a mind to go away.
But the company would not let him; they insisted that he
should remain and defend his position; and I myself added my
own humble request that he would not leave us. Thrasyma-
chus, I said to him, excellent man, how suggestive are your re-
marks! And are you going to run away before you have fairly
taught or learned whether they are true or not? Is the attempt
to determine the way of man's life so small a matter in your
eyes--to determine how life may be passed by each one of us
to the greatest advantage?

And do I differ from you, he said, as to the importance of
the inquiry?

You appear rather, I replied, to have no care or thought
about us, Thrasymachus--whether we live better or worse
from not knowing what you say you know, is to you a matter
of indifference. Prithee, friend, do not keep your knowledge
to yourself; we are a large party; and any benefit which you
confer upon us will be amply rewarded. For my own part I
openly declare that I am not convinced, and that I do not be-
lieve injustice to be more gainful than justice, even if uncon-
trolled and allowed to have free play. For, granting that there
may be an unjust man who is able to commit injustice either
by fraud or force, still this does not convince me of the superior
advantage of injustice, and there may be others who are in the
same predicament with myself. Perhaps we may be wrong;
if so, you in your wisdom should convince us that we are mis-
taken in preferring justice to injustice.

And how am I to convince you, he said, if you are not already
convinced by what I have just said; what more can I do for
you? Would you have me put the proof bodily into your
souls?

Heaven forbid! I said; I would only ask you to be consistent;
or, if you change, change openly and let there be no deception.
For I must remark, Thrasymachus, if you will recall what was
previously said, that although you began by defining the true
physician in an exact sense, you did not observe a like exact-
ness when speaking of the shepherd; you thought that the
shepherd as a shepherd tends the sheep not with a view to their
own good, but like a mere diner or banqueter with a view to
the pleasures of the table; or, again, as a trader for sale in the
market, and not as a shepherd. Yet surely the art of the shep-
herd is concerned only with the good of his subjects; he has