republic (books 1 - 5)   

regard his own interest, but that of his subjects; and everyone
who knew this would choose rather to receive a benefit from
another than to have the trouble of conferring one. So far
am I from agreeing with Thrasymachus that justice is the in-
terest of the stronger. This latter question need not be further
discussed at present; but when Thrasymachus says that the
life of the unjust is more advantageous than that of the just,
his new statement appears to me to be of a far more serious
character. Which of us has spoken truly? And which sort
of life, Glaucon, do you prefer?

I for my part deem the life of the just to be the more ad-
vantageous, he answered.

Did you hear all the advantages of the unjust which Thra-
symachus was rehearsing?

Yes, I heard him, he replied, but he has not convinced me.

Then shall we try to find some way of convincing him, if we
can, that he is saying what is not true?

Most certainly, he replied.

If, I said, he makes a set speech and we make another re-
counting all the advantages of being just, and he answers and
we rejoin, there must be a numbering and measuring of the
goods which are claimed on either side, and in the end we shall
want judges to decide; but if we proceed in our inquiry as we
lately did, by making admissions to one another, we shall unite
the offices of judge and advocate in our own persons.

Very good, he said.

And which method do I understand you to prefer? I said.

That which you propose.

Well, then, Thrasymachus, I said, suppose you begin at the
beginning and answer me. You say that perfect injustice is
more gainful than perfect justice?

Yes, that is what I say, and I have given you my reasons.

And what is your view about them? Would you call one
of them virtue and the other vice?

Certainly.

I suppose that you would call justice virtue and injustice
vice?

What a charming notion! So likely too, seeing that I affirm
injustice to be profitable and justice not.

What else then would you say?

The opposite, he replied.

And would you call justice vice?

No, I would rather say sublime simplicity.

Then would you call injustice malignity?