republic (books 1 - 5)   

Yes, he would.

And what of the unjust--does he claim to have more than
the just man and to do more than is just?

Of course, he said, for he claims to have more than all men.

And the unjust man will strive and struggle to obtain more
than the just man or action, in order that he may have more
than all?

True.

We may put the matter thus, I said--the just does not desire
more than his like, but more than his unlike, whereas the un-
just desires more than both his like and his unlike?

Nothing, he said, can be better than that statement.

And the unjust is good and wise, and the just is neither?

Good again, he said.

And is not the unjust like the wise and good, and the just
unlike them?

Of course, he said, he who is of a certain nature, is like those
who are of a certain nature; he who is not, not.

Each of them, I said, is such as his like is?

Certainly, he replied.

Very good, Thrasymachus, I said; and now to take the case
of the arts: you would admit that one man is a musician and
another not a musician?

Yes.

And which is wise and which is foolish?

Clearly the musician is wise, and he who is not a musician is
foolish.

And he is good in as far as he is wise, and bad in as far as
he is foolish?

Yes.

And you would say the same sort of thing of the physician?

Yes.

And do you think, my excellent friend, that a musician when
he adjusts the lyre would desire or claim to exceed or go be-
yond a musician in the tightening and loosening the strings?

I do not think that he would.

But he would claim to exceed the non-musician?

Of course.